[morini]

Another thing to note, which I guess we might see more of this season, is the potential impact of Checo on RBR. A few times during winter testing he came in changed things & went out again. He has given his engineers a clear direction. You saw him explaining & engineers listening. Whereas with Albion it always seemed like he was listening to the engineers. Having a driver in the second car who can give meaningful feed back & provide potential avenues for engineers to explore will only help the team further.

This is a underestimated factor. I always was annoyed that Albon only tried to copy the settings of Verstappen and was only listening to Verstappen his feedback (and obviously it also did not work for him). 
Getting feedback from another driver like Perez will for sure be a big help for improving the results during the season for the whole team and both cars.

Yes, I think having a fresh driver to take the car development forward will help Red Bull a lot. I've said it before, but I have never been 100% convinced by Max Verstappen's car development skills. He's a great driver and one of the few on the grid who can drive around a cars problems, but I haven't seen very much to indicate he is great at improving the car. Checo will bring a fresh perspective and if it makes the car easier to drive then that will help both drivers and the whole team.

Lets see if they've got enough to mount a decent challenge this year.

[Monster Hesh]

I'm under no illusion that teams aren't going to rock up in 10 days time with race 1 car upgrades. Merc more so than anyone.

[Antilochos]

Another thing to note, which I guess we might see more of this season, is the potential impact of Checo on RBR. A few times during winter testing he came in changed things & went out again. He has given his engineers a clear direction. You saw him explaining & engineers listening. Whereas with Albion it always seemed like he was listening to the engineers. Having a driver in the second car who can give meaningful feed back & provide potential avenues for engineers to explore will only help the team further.

This is a underestimated factor. I always was annoyed that Albon only tried to copy the settings of Verstappen and was only listening to Verstappen his feedback (and obviously it also did not work for him). 
Getting feedback from another driver like Perez will for sure be a big help for improving the results during the season for the whole team and both cars.

Yes, I think having a fresh driver to take the car development forward will help Red Bull a lot. I've said it before, but I have never been 100% convinced by Max Verstappen's car development skills. He's a great driver and one of the few on the grid who can drive around a cars problems, but I haven't seen very much to indicate he is great at improving the car. Checo will bring a fresh perspective and if it makes the car easier to drive then that will help both drivers and the whole team.

Lets see if they've got enough to mount a decent challenge this year.

You said it before but I don't know why you keep thinking that.

To be a great driver and getting those optimal results, you need to have the full package, the driver needs to understand the car and technique completely. So as for race setup, I think Verstappen has proven he is great at that.
As for car development, I think this is not much different from the set up understanding. Al his teammates and engineers say he is great at it (like Ricciardo said; Verstappen was a nerd that talked about parts he himself didn't even knew exists). And also here for the result; Red Bull is the second best car on the grid, the results of great development are there. Only the engine in power stays behind from the Mercedes and that is a department were a driver can't do nothing.

[morini]

You said it before but I don't know why you keep thinking that.

To be a great driver and getting those optimal results, you need to have the full package, the driver needs to understand the car and technique completely. So as for race setup, I think Verstappen has proven he is great at that.
As for car development, I think this is not much different from the set up understanding. Al his teammates and engineers say he is great at it (like Ricciardo said; Verstappen was a nerd that talked about parts he himself didn't even knew exists). And also here for the result; Red Bull is the second best car on the grid, the results of great development are there. Only the engine in power stays behind from the Mercedes and that is a department were a driver can't do nothing.

Why do I think this? Well, I think it because that is the way it looks to me and has done for a few years since Ricciardo left the team. Nothing I've seen so far tells me Max Verstappen has ever taken that car in the optimum development direction.

The Red Bull is (or has been for several years) a difficult car with unpredictable handling. Verstappen can cope with it much better than any of the drivers who have been alongside him the second seat, but that does not mean the car is as good as it could be in terms of maximising lap times. Vertappens teammates simply can't drive the car and I don't buy that Max is 1 second faster than the likes of Gasly, Kyvat or Albon. No doubt he is faster, but the margins aren't that huge, the car simply does not suit his teammates and up to now RBR have not listened to the second driver because the team is entirely focussed on Max.

I am willing to bet that if they listen to Checo Perez feedback then that car will develop in a better direction than it has over the last few years. I don't really rate Checo as a mega qualifier, but he's a damn good racer. I only hope Red Bull listen to his input.

Also, I don't buy your comments about engine power being the only reason Max's results have not been stellar either. Red Bull are supposedly the chassis kings, which means Max should be racking up regular pole positions in places like Singapore, Monaco, Budapest. He's been in F1 for 7 seasons now and he has 3 pole positions to his name. Something's not right there, the car is for sure quick enough at RBR speciality circuits.

[PapaofGags]

My view, Perez will be a big asset to Red Bull, all those years experience will be valuable, I have no doubt he will be giving feedback they will listen to & it will improve their car.

I believe Max has the talent to drive around problems with his car, as only the top drivers can, but I do question does this help improve the car? 

I mean If Max can "drive the wheels of it" & win great, but does it improve the car? are Red Bull missing/losing something Max's incredible driving hides? I think it might.

Bottom line, it never hurts to listen to experience.

Really looking forward to see these lads race, Max will own Saturdays but if long stints are needed it will get interesting.

I didn't know this Anti > (Ricciardo said; Verstappen was a nerd that talked about parts he himself didn't even knew exists)

Not long to wait.  

[Antilochos]

I didn't know this Anti > (Ricciardo said; Verstappen was a nerd that talked about parts he himself didn't even knew exists)

Dammit you made me doubt myself and google it. At least I found it so here is the actual quote from Ricciardo:
“Even the way when he’s in engineering briefings and talking about some details on the car, I don’t even know what they are.
He’s a bit of a racing nerd, I guess."

That I can remember silly stuff some Australian guy said years ago but forget my anniversary with my wife... Must be the alcohol taking its toll.

---

You said it before but I don't know why you keep thinking that.

To be a great driver and getting those optimal results, you need to have the full package, the driver needs to understand the car and technique completely. So as for race setup, I think Verstappen has proven he is great at that.
As for car development, I think this is not much different from the set up understanding. Al his teammates and engineers say he is great at it (like Ricciardo said; Verstappen was a nerd that talked about parts he himself didn't even knew exists). And also here for the result; Red Bull is the second best car on the grid, the results of great development are there. Only the engine in power stays behind from the Mercedes and that is a department were a driver can't do nothing.

Why do I think this? Well, I think it because that is the way it looks to me and has done for a few years since Ricciardo left the team. Nothing I've seen so far tells me Max Verstappen has ever taken that car in the optimum development direction.

The Red Bull is (or has been for several years) a difficult car with unpredictable handling. Verstappen can cope with it much better than any of the drivers who have been alongside him the second seat, but that does not mean the car is as good as it could be in terms of maximising lap times. Vertappens teammates simply can't drive the car and I don't buy that Max is 1 second faster than the likes of Gasly, Kyvat or Albon. No doubt he is faster, but the margins aren't that huge, the car simply does not suit his teammates and up to now RBR have not listened to the second driver because the team is entirely focussed on Max.

I am willing to bet that if they listen to Checo Perez feedback then that car will develop in a better direction than it has over the last few years. I don't really rate Checo as a mega qualifier, but he's a damn good racer. I only hope Red Bull listen to his input.

Also, I don't buy your comments about engine power being the only reason Max's results have not been stellar either. Red Bull are supposedly the chassis kings, which means Max should be racking up regular pole positions in places like Singapore, Monaco, Budapest. He's been in F1 for 7 seasons now and he has 3 pole positions to his name. Something's not right there, the car is for sure quick enough at RBR speciality circuits.

I understand your point about the car being hard to drive, but Ricciardo had no trouble with it and even the Torpedo was doing fine. Gasly I think had a hard time with the pressure being in the top team against Verstappen and Albon the same while he also isn't that great of a driver.
Also the car is still the second best on the grid and to expect one driver to change in into the best (by beating the most dominant car and team ever!) seems a bit much.

Lets put it into another perspective; Ferrari. Everybody says Vettel is great at building up a team and car. They also had Raikonnen for years. But the car sucks balls and all their latest GP wins are thanks to cheating. Is that now Vettel his fault? 

Trying to put it into percentages, I think the driver can only help improve the car for like the last 5% (which is still a lot in F1). The rest is up to all those hundreds of people who actually have a job engineering, building and setting up a car. And lets not forget make it work optimal with the engine. And then tyres. 

But that is how I see it, so we might not agree on this.

[forzaferrari]

 and all their latest GP wins are thanks to cheating. 

 hey, hey, hey, I cant be having that.......our ol mucker Jean Todt hasnt actually come out and said such slanderous things.....anyway, we were just being "innovative" 

[NeilP]

Some interesting view points raised in this latest part of the thread. Not sure where I stand on them.

Verstappen is a magnificent driver, still immature in many ways and 7 years in that is no longer excusable. I have no idea if he is good at car development but listening to his radio conversations over the time its clear he understands what is happening with the car but maybe we should expect everyone to know that. If Ricciardo says that Max knows what he is talking about that is good enough for me to trust his words.

What I will be interested to see with Red Bull is what Perez's role with the team is. Obviously Max is number one but will Perez be subordinate to that either by team orders (which he frequently ignored at Force India et al.) or willingly. He is very proud and headstrong.

As regards who has the best or fastest car right now nobody knows so many variables. I kind of believe Mercedes are being straight about thinking Red Bull is the faster car and the performance of Mercedes in the tests whichever way you choose to look at it was disappointing. That said its a long season and I would expect Mercedes to develop their car at least as good if not better than any other team. Lets hope it is a close run thing it will make for a better viewing for us fans regardless of who you follow.

I think we need to see at perhaps the first six races to get a really good idea of where things stand, plenty of variation in the circuits.

[forzaferrari]

On tonight guys