[Purple-banana]

Likewise M,

But I'll call a spade a spade and I'll call it out if I see behaviour from one team/driver being deemed acceptable when for another it is blasted as clumsy, or worse - deliberate and unsporting.

Jody can spin stewards reviews all day long, but the pertinent fact is on all three occasions one driver was out of control and hit another from behind. I have no problem with the Ferraris being punished in France and GB, and I can even accept that damaging his front wing was punishment enough for Bottas in Hungary. But to me that was 100% unquestionably Bottas' fault, summed up by Palmer - his tyres were fucked, there was no need to defend so aggressively (paraphrase).

[LotusLover]

!00% a racing incident, no qualms there, but I believe if that had been LH would not of risked the potential "banana skin". Bottas took the risk and unfortunately for him he came off worse.

[morini]

I'm perfectly happy to agree to disagree with you both (JB & LL). But I think you both are ignoring my main point here. Vettel *could* have left room and still got the move done. He must have known his competitor wasn't going to give it up.

He's in WDC fight, he would be wise to play the percentages and lower the risk of a collision.

I agree with the stewards on this one. I would have zero sympathy if Vettel got a puncture there when he could have reduced the risk himself.

Hard to respond on phone. Quoting or replying is a nightmare.

[LotusLover]

Fair enough, but if the driver behind is going to do the impossible I think it stands to reason he should be to blame, anyway its all done now

---

Vettel was on the racing line and ahead why wouldn't he take the apex? Yep apples and oranges but Bottas didn't need to go in a gap that wasn't there, lost his front wing suffered and lost three places. More importantly he lost DOTD  for Morini hahaha, acytually even more importantly lost points in my DT ffs

Actually both were way off the racing line, but as has been said, Vettel turned in when part of Bottas' car was alongside him, you can argue it shouldn't have been there and he should have given it up, which I have, but he was there, and before turn in, and under the rules he should have left space. That's exactly why no penalty was given. Neither were totally at fault, and neither were 100% innocent. The Danny Ricciardo Clash was completely different for me, and more akin to seb crashing into Bottas in France and Kimi into Hamilton in Silverstone, all of which received penalties. I really do think the Bottas / Seb clash in Hungary was a racing incident. Stupid on both parties behalf. If you twisted my arm and said give a penalty to one or the other of them? I'd say Bottas, because I feel he shouldn't have left his nose in there as he wasn't ever really likely to win the place back.

Surely at those speeds its for the guy behind to make the reaction, he can see what will happen potentially, Vettel would not of seen it? What I like about us armchairs is we all have opinions but sometimes we are unfair as it is much easier to talk in hindsight isn't it?

[NeilP]

I totally understand people defending their "guy or team" but I simply do not understand how any of you cannot grasp the simple idea (in fact not idea but RULE) that when overtaking you are required leave the car you are overtaking a full cars width.

Did Vettel leave Bottas a full cars width? Absolutely not!

Was he fully ahead of Bottas no!!

Am I saying Vettel should have been penalised well actually by the strict rule as above yes he should have been. Am I mad he was not? No it was a racing incident in my eyes but it was a dumb move by Vettel not carried out well at all.

[Jody Barton]

Fair enough, but if the driver behind is going to do the impossible I think it stands to reason he should be to blame, anyway its all done now

---

Vettel was on the racing line and ahead why wouldn't he take the apex? Yep apples and oranges but Bottas didn't need to go in a gap that wasn't there, lost his front wing suffered and lost three places. More importantly he lost DOTD  for Morini hahaha, acytually even more importantly lost points in my DT ffs

Actually both were way off the racing line, but as has been said, Vettel turned in when part of Bottas' car was alongside him, you can argue it shouldn't have been there and he should have given it up, which I have, but he was there, and before turn in, and under the rules he should have left space. That's exactly why no penalty was given. Neither were totally at fault, and neither were 100% innocent. The Danny Ricciardo Clash was completely different for me, and more akin to seb crashing into Bottas in France and Kimi into Hamilton in Silverstone, all of which received penalties. I really do think the Bottas / Seb clash in Hungary was a racing incident. Stupid on both parties behalf. If you twisted my arm and said give a penalty to one or the other of them? I'd say Bottas, because I feel he shouldn't have left his nose in there as he wasn't ever really likely to win the place back.

Surely at those speeds its for the guy behind to make the reaction, he can see what will happen potentially, Vettel would not of seen it? What I like about us armchairs is we all have opinions but sometimes we are unfair as it is much easier to talk in hindsight isn't it?

The reality is whether you like it or not, he should have left Bottas room, under the rules and also as common sense. So lets talk about what Seb should or shouldn't have seen. We can clearly see from his onboard he doesn't check to see where Bottas is when he turns in. Regardless of whether the move was done or not, that's stupid in any circumstances. However, it is doubly stupid given that he had literally just seen Bottas' rear tyres run out of rubber and seen him squirming all over the road and struggling for grip. So what the hell was Seb thinking? Regardless of whether you think he'd got the move made or not, or whether part of Bottas' car was alongside him or not, this was the Vettel "chop" as Webber and Button used to call it. Seb's cutting across an opponent in an aggressive way to say you shall not pass. Fine when you are way in front of your opponent, clumsy as hell when you aren't, and risky, needlessly risky.

So now lets look into Bottas' head at that moment, and try to understand what he was seeing and his very real human emotions inside the cockpit. Firstly the guy had been on his tyres for nearly 50 laps by then, and for a good chunk of them he'd had Kimi or Seb right behind him trying to get past him. Now with the finish line tantalizingly close he's had a moment of oversteer and allowed Seb alongside him. His nose is in the corner of Sebs car, if he can just out break him and slide up the inside and block him off, perhaps he can get the place back. Likely with our armchair hindsight? No. Totally understandable as a human reaction? Yes. Read the red part of my comment I've highlighted again. I just don't think Bottas was entirely at fault, was he stupid? Yes. Would I apportion the majority of blame to the Mercedes driver? Yes, but not by much.

The other examples offered up, the drivers who were hit gave their opponents plenty space, Seb didn't you can't argue that there's bloody video evidence. lol. But more importantly Seb in his after race interviews conceded the point also, so I just don't get how it's even a debate.

[morini]

risky, needlessly risky.

Which was the key thing I was trying to get across (I repeated it several times). Sebastian is in WDC dogfight FFS. He needs to get his percentage head on, and quick if he want the title this year.

[Jody Barton]

Yup!!! Like taking a qualifying lap line in Germany and breaking late on a slippery track... he doesn't always make the wisest of choices. He's matured a lot over the years, and he's a very quick driver, but at times you question his decision making, this for me was one of those times. An Alonso, Hamilton or Ricciardo, takes a wide line though turn 2 Knowing any switchback through turn 3 just kills the other guys chances any way. Not Seb, he has to rush things.

[F1 Fan]

Biggest disappointment of the weekend for me was Brundle's commentary for the last few laps. I have defended him to the hilt against the SSF1 trolls in the past, but I felt really let down by him on Sunday. Biggest disappointment DESPITE whatever that thing on Lewis' head was - that should really tell you something!

He blamed Seb for the Bottas collision instantly and without question, even going as far as to suggest (jokingly or not) it might be because of Ferrari's "fancy mirrors". Erm, sorry Martin, but they're in the same place on all the cars and meet the regulations. I don't know if he was snubbed at a dealership or something the week before but he really had it in for Seb following that contact. I actually laughed out loud when he turned to Horner for back-up "do you think *he* deserves a penalty" and Horner presumed he meant Bottas. How anybody - Lewis included - can genuinely feel the commentary team are consistently pro-Ferrari, anti-Mercedes/Hamilton is beyond me.

Is this the start of Brundle's steady decline into a Murray Walker-esq state of dementia? In all seriousness, if I remember rightly, isn't he missing Spa & Suzuka for some pre-determined health reasons?

Good race overall, frustrating for Seb being tucked up behind Bottas all that time, but that's just F1. I'd have been whooping and cheering were the roles reversed. I hope it's just as close when racing returns in Spa, maybe with lady luck swinging back to the red team for a few races to close the gaps back up. Since they couldn't pay their respects to Sergio Marchionne with a Hungarian win, I will settle for a Monza display of dominance instead.

Forza Ferrari!!

You're right he is turning into to Murray. Q2 on Saturday he was slating Ferrari for sending Vettel out on intimidates, a few minutes later i think he realised his mistake. Even during the race he was going on about how surprised he was that Ferrari didn't have race pace, clearly they did, Kimi proved it. Vettel wasn't able to use it.

And what was that all about, trying to suggest that Vettel was at fault on the overtake! Very ballsy if you ask me, given what happened last week, he took a big risk for three points. Really don't understand some people, we all go on about lack of overtaking and when a driver pulls one of those off they should be applauded in my opinion, there isn't enough of it.

That's what we are missing with Hamilton and Vettel at the moment, some good wheel to wheel racing, closest we have come is in Austria, hopefully will get some after the break.

If Vettel is going to win the title hopefully he does it in style, just to silence some of his critics, I'm not his greatest fan, but it goes without saying hes talented, just needs a slightly more measured approach. Hamilton's made plenty of mistakes in his time, including completely unnecessary wheel banging with opponents, so they all do it at different stages in their career.

[Jody Barton]

@F1 Fan, no one is claiming Seb was to blame, but we are saying he should have taken a wider line, the move wasn't quite done, but it was obviously going to be done. I rate Seb as a quick driver, always have, and I'm sure Morini will back me up on that one. However, I do sometimes question his judgement. Should he have had a go at passing Bottas? Hell yes!!! But I stand by my comment that an Alonso, Hamilton or a Ricciardo wouldn't have chopped Bottas off like that and taken the wider line through turn 2 and opened up turn 3 and given Bottas the much safer and firmer shoulder, which compromises the run up to turn 4 for your opponent. How do I know this? Because there's video evidence of them doing it. I really, really want Seb to cut out his errors, because on his day he can be great, unbeatable even. But throughout his career, even though he's matured, he is still prone to silly moves and poor judgement.