[morini]

I know it was academic at that point, just wondering did Bottas argue his point or flat out ignore the instruction.... I will watch later on

Well he was definately given the instruction, heard it when i re-watched. It didn't look like he let Dan past, so I can only assume he ignored it. I don't think there was anything else of radion to confirm or deny he ignored the instruction.

[Jody Barton]

There was a video on the F1 Facebook feed where Bottas' says no to giving the place back and that it was Ricciardo's fault for trying round the outside of him.

[morini]

There was a video on the F1 Facebook feed where Bottas' says no to giving the place back and that it was Ricciardo's fault for trying round the outside of him.

Fair enough, I wouldn't know about that having a distrust of facebook I do have an account on there, but rarely use it.

[Jody Barton]

Here's the video:

https://www.facebook.com/Formula1/videos...075226040/

It's at the end, he says it's his own fault for trying to go around the outside, which was his response to the order to give the place back.

[NeilP]

Both Vettel and Ricciardo need to learn from this race (although I doubt Vettel will because he has been here before) I understand he wanted to get past Bottas but he was never going to catch Hamilton at that stage and had 5 laps (at least) to go in which to get Bottas. He took a huge risk which was stupid and unneccesary had he punctured a tyre there he was done and a 24 point gap would now be a 42 point deficit.

Even Christian Horner who I know raced at a lower level was aware of what would happen to Bottas and again Ricciardo ignored that risk when there really was no need he was easily going to get him anyway.

I guess pressure tells but you got to do a better Job if you are going to win races and championships.

[Purple-banana]

Both Vettel and Ricciardo need to learn from this race (although I doubt Vettel will because he has been here before) I understand he wanted to get past Bottas but he was never going to catch Hamilton at that stage and had 5 laps (at least) to go in which to get Bottas.  He took a huge risk which was stupid and unneccesary had he punctured a tyre there he was done and a 24 point gap would now be a 42 point deficit.

Even Christian Horner who I know raced at a lower level was aware of what would happen to Bottas and again Ricciardo ignored that risk when there really was no need he was easily going to get him anyway.

I guess pressure tells but you got to do a better Job if you are going to win races and championships.

It's not over 'till the fat lady sings...

I think you're right Neil, deep down Seb knew he wasn't going to catch Lewis.... buuut, what if Lewis had made a mistake and run wide, or spun, or got a puncture... Had Seb got past Bottas and then pootled along at a safe pace, it may not have effected the outcome, but any number of things could have transpired that could change that picture in an instant. Can you imagine if Lewis needed an emergency pit stop, or took a trip through the gravel and rejoined still in the lead because Seb was meandering around checking out the scenery?

In that respect it's no different to Lewis' actions at the 2016 Abu Dhabi GP, he knew Rosberg had almost certainly clinched it, but he did everything in his power to make sure he maximized his chances. (Ultimately for Lewis that meant ignoring team orders which I am 100% against. No driver is bigger than the team, regardless of who you are or how many WDCs you've got).

I think he also wanted to prove the pace he had in clear air!

---

While we're at it, I read Joyless Palmoff's article on the BBC this morning and found myself in complete agreement with him (JV last week, Palmer this - what the hell is wrong with me!?)

"On lap 65, though, Bottas took his wingman duties to a new extreme.

Vettel's attacks were getting more and more persistent and dangerous heading into the closing stages. Bottas' rear tyres were visibly ailing, and when he couldn't get the power down on the exit of Turn One, Vettel finally seized the opportunity to pass.

It's fair to say Vettel arguably could have given Bottas more room on the inside as they headed to Turn Two. Vettel did close the door to take the apex and could have been more cautious, but Bottas never should have tried to recover the position in the manner he did.

Vettel was just about fully ahead, Bottas was coming at the corner from completely on the inside, hugging the grass, and he was never going to be able to make it stick. Bottas was behind Vettel, on older, less grippy tyres, and on the dirty part of the track. Vettel's move was done.

Instead, Bottas kept coming, went partially over the kerb, locked his wheels, and hit Vettel from behind.

I think it was desperation from Bottas - he wasn't fussed about crashing with Vettel at that point and put his car in a position where a crash was almost inevitable.

This comes just weeks after Wolff and Hamilton had accused Ferrari of unfair tactics after two incidents in a three-week period in which a Ferrari had collided with a Mercedes on the first laps of the French and German Grands Prix - accusations they later withdrew.

In my opinion, the Bottas incident in Hungary was the most questionable of the lot."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/45000927

[NeilP]

LMAO

I just read it and was going to post exactly the opposite of your opinion, I think he is way off and in fact contradicts himself

"It's fair to say Vettel arguably could have given Bottas more room on the inside as they headed to Turn Two. Vettel did close the door to take the apex and could have been more cautious"

So vettel was also responsible to a degree then Jolyon

"Vettel was just about fully ahead"

Well Jolyon he either was ahead or he was not.

I guess John you being a Ferrari guy and me being a Mercedes guy we were bound to differ in opinion

Edit : If you read the top rated comments they all question Palmers article.

[Purple-banana]

Edit : If you read the top rated comments they all question Palmers article.

I think that speaks more of the demographic of users visiting & commenting on the BBC F1 website than any fair assessment of the incident.

Factually Palmer is spot on;

• Vettel was ahead
  
• Bottas' tyres were old. Very old.
  
• Bottas was off-line, even partially off track
  
• Bottas was locked up.
  

Vettel was driving the car, so of course he is partly responsible, but apportioning him blame is like blaming the victim of a car-jacking for buying a car in the first place.

Let's re-cap:
Azerbaijan GP - Ricciardo locks up and hits Verstappen from behind - no penalty, but Ricciardo widely accepted as at fault
French GP - Vettel locks up and hits Bottas from behind - Vettel penalised
British GP - Raikonnen locks up and hits Hamilton from behind - Raikonnen penalised
Hungarian GP - Bottas locks up and hits Vettel from behind...........?

[NeilP]

"I think that speaks more of the demographic of users visiting & commenting on the BBC F1 website than any fair assessment of the incident." You could be correct but fact remains there are as many Ferrari fans as Mercedes fans in the UK.

Factually Palmer is spot on;
Vettel was ahead - 'Well ahead yes a full cars length no. Even Croft "He was not quite far enough ahead" '
Bottas' tyres were old. 'Very old. - Yes but so what?'
Bottas was off-line, even partially off track - 'Why was that, because Vettel did not leave him a cars width, nobody drives off track deliberately in those circumstances.'
Bottas was locked up. - 'True'

Vettel was driving the car, so of course he is partly responsible, but apportioning him blame is like blaming the victim of a car-jacking for buying a car in the first place. 'I consider it a racing incident but he is partially to blame simply because he did not leave Bottas a cars width as the rules require'

As for your recap I agree but with the following comments. I thought Verstappen was equally culpable in that incident. As regards Bottas.... ???? He was penalized John.

[morini]

I've only watched the incident twice, so hesitate to firmly disagree with you JB. It looked a bit different the second watch, Vettel was ahead but he hadn't cleared the Mercedes completely when he turned in.

It was 50:50, but I thought Vettel took an unnecessary risk by not leaving any room at all. The move was done, he should have left room. If it had ended in tears I would not have blamed Vettel for the incident, but would say he made his own problem by not allowing room.

A better driver would have left VB space and still got the job done.

If there are typos in this it's cos I'm on my phone.