[NeilP]

Okay this is not so much a rumour as a thought of mine and I am sure others although not necessarily from this website. Lots of chatter about B teams, and lots of dislike being fired at the prospect/thought/idea that Mercedes may well acquire one.

Well in my opinion they absolutely should, Red Bull have one, Ferrari have one and a half, why should Mercedes not have one too? These teams are able to promote young drivers far easier than Mercedes and in the interest of fighting on a level playing field I think Mercedes absolutely should run a B team. Whether that is newly created team (which I personally would prefer to see) or whether they take over Williams which I think is a lot closer to happening than we are hearing in public right now (No I know nothing its just a educated guess).

I dont understand why people are so anti Mercedes doing exactly what RBR and Ferrari are already actively doing, makes no sense to me.

[Jody Barton]

OK here are my two perspectives on in:

1) Yes, given Red Bull and Ferrari clearly have B-teams then Mercedes if they want to continue to compete with those two teams long term will need to invest in a B-team. The question is whether or not there is the will at Mercedes HQ to pump out that sort of money. If they see themselves in F1 long-term though I think they'll have to, and given as you say Ferrari (They'll complete the buy out of Saube before the end of 2019) and Red Bull already do why shouldn't Mercedes? No good reason to block them. They were close to saving Manor, but there was apparently complaints to the FIA over it, so Mercedes backed out of it, which sucks for those who worked at Manor.

2) I happen to think B-teams are actually bad for the sport in general. I really, really do. I didn't like Red Bull buying Minardi at the time, however I accepted it as that was literally the only way it was going to be saved as a team. However, I am philosophically opposed to it. I can see the benefits in terms of having more teams being competitive in the midfield, but it also essentially hoovers up more of the sports money for the bigger teams and makes it far harder for Garage teams like McLaren, Williams et al, that have made F1 the sport it is, function. It would also in my opinion act as a pretty big deterrent to any new manufacturer coming into the sport.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Just to add to what Jody said on this - the issue for me is a lot of fans of manufacturers seem to think that the midfield or Garage teams are superfluous to the sport - they aren't, they are as much the backbone of it every bit as much teams like SF - okay we live in different times, but without teams like Williams, McLaren, and previously Lotus (Chapman), and dare I say it Jordan, LOL - F1 wouldn't have the exceptional history that it does - if I thought we would get to a time when all we have is 2 or 3 manufacturers competing against each other - well, that'd suck balls, but I've always been a fan of the "garigistas" - unfortunately the days where they can actually compete and "WIN" - seem dubious, Force India, seem the only ones even close today

[morini]

<morini's opinion>

B teams are the antithesis of competition. I would rather see all teams representing their own interests on the track.

<reality>

The big teams will use every advantage they can. More data = more intelligence = maximising performance. Even disregarding the convenient placement of up and coming drivers from the respective teams drivers programs, I can see why it would be attractive from a development perspective to have more than one team.

If you can't beat them, join them.

[PapaofGags]

JGarage teams are superfluous to the sport - they aren't, they are as much the backbone of it every bit as much teams like SF - Williams, McLaren, and previously Lotus (Chapman), and dare I say it Jordan,

The big teams will use every advantage they can. If you can't beat them, join them.

Completely agree Fog, they are the backbone of our sport, though its hard to argue/disagree with Morini, its F1 & the nature of the beast, competitive animals know no bounds.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

though its hard to argue/disagree with Morini, . . .

It may be hard to argue with Morini, on this, but I'll find a way . . . . hahaha

[morini]

It may be hard to argue with Morini, on this, but I'll find a way . . . . hahaha

I have absolutely no doubt about that one!

[NeilP]

So guys as so many of you are against B teams for many reasons in the interest of fair play do we ban Toro Rosso next season and tell them to be brought out (Honda maybe?) or quit?

That is a tongue in cheek statement before someone removes my head!!!

[Jody Barton]

So guys as so many of you are against B teams

do we ban Toro Rosso next season and tell them to be brought out (Honda maybe?) or quit?

That is a tongue in cheek statement before someone removes my head!!!

OK, not going to bite your head off, tongue in cheek statement or not, but this is actually often the problem when talking about F1, everything is argued dichotomously, shoved into false binaries. The sport is far more nuanced than that, with very subtle gray areas. I think both myself and Morini argued quite pragmatic and intricate views on the subject. Firstly, had Red Bull not purchased Minardi then we'd be two cars down on the grid... and I'd be short some juicy gossip from the paddock. So Red Bull buying a B-team could be seen as either good or bad. It stopped the grid shrinking at a time the sport was shrinking at an alarming rate. Essentially Red Bull's money saved the sport from losing 4 cars, and as an F1 fan I'm grateful for that. I also happen to disagree with Fog, Red Bull are a garage team, although next season with support from Honda they become a defacto works team, they are still a garage team and not a manufacturers outfit. Still, having a second team on the grid to not only share costs, but gather data and hoover up more of the sports cash isn't healthy. However, we have to be pragmatic and understand that without Red Bull the F1 grid would be grately diminished.

Onto what Ferrari are doing with more specifically Sauber, but also Haas I think there's an argument to be made both ways again. Firstly, Sauber without the cash and the technical input would once again be propping up the back of the grid and wrestling with Williams for the wooden spoon, so I am definitely happy that Sauber are more competitive this season... well... with one car any way. Plus the grumpy old bugger that I can sometimes be quite likes hearing the Alfa Romeo name back in F1. Plus if Red Bull can do it why not Ferrari / Fiat. As long as we've got race stewards making sure the B-teams aren't unfairly holding up race leaders when they come round to lap them, and thus helping their parent teams out, is there really a problem? Well yes, because it stifles the space for the garage teams to compete, but again, without the Fiat cash and talent I'm not sure Sauber would have survived much longer. So is the problem manufacturers buying B-teams, or is it the sport not being financially viable for garage teams anymore... and is that because of the involvement of manufacturers? It's a chicken and egg thing.

The Haas situation is very different for me, and something that's slightly disturbing. Haas have already admitted that essentially they and Sauber were used by Ferrari as a test in the Hungarian GP for the new engine. What? Unacceptable in my opinion, to essentially throw two teams onto a track with a new engine upgrade because you weren't sure of it yourselves for your cars. No. Not acceptable. Telling a supposedly independent team who they can and can't have driving for them next year (Ocon), sorry no, unacceptable. And this is one of the many reasons I'm unhappy with the way Haas have chosen to "race" in the sport, by literally buying as much Ferrari tech as possible, it leaves them wide open to manipulation and unable to make decisions in their best interests. I happen to think the model for a new team coming into the sport is a sound one... if Ferrari would leave them alone to go racing and not treat them like a B-team and exert pressure on them. For the record I also think Mercedes exert some of pressure on FI as they provide engines, gearboxes and I believe someone said the other day suspension as well for their cars now. That's not healthy either.

So to get back to the idea of a Mercedes B-team, you can't oppose the concept of a Daimler-Benz team entering the sport given what is happening with Toro rosso and Sauber specifically. You can't. It's not a sane position to take, unless you oppose Toro Rosso and Alfa Romeo Sauber and do something about their current status in the sport. I'm more than aware that to do so would by hypocritical. Doesn't mean I'd like it though, although if Mercedes wish to be competitive in F1 long term... well... they're going to have to do just that, bring in a B-team. However, if they do, I hope it is by bringing two new cars, and an entirely new team to the grid, and not by buying either Williams or Force India. I still happen to think it was a shame that there was opposition in the paddock to Mercedes saving Manor. I think that might have been a good thing on the balance of things, but I got why Williams and Force India in particular complained about the move, given Mercedes had already made noises about only wanting to supply three teams engines. I also get why McLaren grumbled at the time too, given their woes, although looking back Saubers opposition seems ironic now, and Red Bulls opposition outright hypocritical, only Ferrari on the current grid didn't moan, probably because they were already lining things up for Sauber.

Sooooo... long story short, it's complicated. I'm not against a Mercedes B-team per se, but I have my reservations about the wider trend within the sport towards B-teams, and if it is to happen I'd prefer it to be an entirely new entry.

[NeilP]

So in summation there are already B teams on the grid.

If its good for goose its good for the gander.

I think every single one of us on here would like to see new teams. I am not as picky as you Jody I dont care where they come from, that said it would absolutely be preferable to see independents come in along with new Manufacturers teams (Not brand names from within the same group of companies).

If we were to consider every angle on every subject and consequentially effects Jody it would pretty much require a thesis to be written on every subject. This is a simple website with people who just love and understand the sport at differing levels of knowledge. Me personally I have a very basic understanding of the sport but I enjoy it immensely and I enjoy reading all viewpoints it enhances my fun!