[Jody Barton]

No, Morini, the fuss was made to try a stunt Mercedes, it worked for a week. It won't work this week. I personally hate the way teams can do this, Ferrari are particularly egregious in this regard, and sadly RBR, Renault and Mercedes are stepping their efforts in this area up. Don't like it, and I don't like how it works between the race stewards and FIA, that needs clearing up, and all technical questions MUST be dealt with by the FIA from now on. The stewards will not have all the pertinent information in all cases. I don't like the rules lawyer aspect of the sport that was brought in by Jean Todt, yeah before him there were complaints, but he turned it into a profession, he employed people to do this job specifically. I remember Dennis and Briatore bemoaning the way Todt conducted his business and claiming it was unsporting. I think there needs to be a limit on complaints and rules clarifications, and that while the FIA is finishing up investigations, then no complaints can be made to stewards as the dispute is being settled.

[LotusLover]

So here is a question? If it causes all this fuss, why dont the FIA say "the rims will be manufactured to regs A B and C, there will be no "add ons" in any form you all use the same? Now no doubt many will say "erm what about innovation" to which you could reply "what about cost?" If in essence this design is allowed to stay for 2019 and onwards, does this not bump up costs to the smaller (already struggling teams?). So what may be good for one may not be better for those at the rear really will it?

[Jody Barton]

You can't specify wheel rims, or ven standardise them, even motorsports that have standardised chassis' don't have standardised wheel rims. This is because teams need to set up the contact points for their tyres for how they are trimming the aero, and more importantly how the drive shaft, transmission and rear axle are all set up. Unless everything is standard on the cars and run in a standard way you can't have wheel rims, and you essentially kill a good chunk of motorsport. They can say wheel rims can fit certain parameters and not have certain aspects, but teams need to be able to develop their own solutions that fit their design concepts.

[LotusLover]

You can't specify wheel rims, or ven standardise them, even motorsports that have standardised chassis' don't have standardised wheel rims. This is because teams need to set up the contact points for their tyres for how they are trimming the aero, and more importantly how the drive shaft, transmission and rear axle are all set up. Unless everything is standard on the cars and run in a standard way you can't have wheel rims, and you essentially kill a good chunk of motorsport. They can say wheel rims can fit certain parameters and not have certain aspects, but teams need to be able to develop their own solutions that fit their design concepts.

Ok, but you can have a rim that fits a specific car without having any additional parts such as extra holes surely? You may not be killing Motorsport by having teams advance their tech but it does kill smaller teams that cannot afford to do the same does it not? Isn't this the argument in the paddock currently, that big teams keep spending vast amounts of cash yet smaller teams cannot keep up and then lose out in EVERY way. If anyone says that's how its always been i don't believe it is, Williams and Lotus etc did not come in with vast amounts like the manufacturers did they? Or perhaps the regs/rules were much less stringent back in the day?

 It seems the regs are so clear no-one can see through them! or perhaps Jody and i am not sure this would be great i don't know but development freezes in the season?  You design your car with resources available  then at Australia boom it stops!! I know they tried the token system but that was not popular, but wouldnt that help the smaller teams in terms of cost?? Maybe that would be damaging in terms of innovation, what about mid point in the season you have your upgrades then again sop. It seems a little unfair that a team can find a solution and reverse the season, i suppose if it was Merc not being able to play "catch up" then that could be deemed unfair also" Quite tricky this development business!!! Cannot please everyone i suppose

[Jody Barton]

The trouble with set homologation LL is if you turn up to Australia with a vastly superior, or inferior car then that sets the rest of the season without development, so why have the rest of the season? How is finding a way to make your car work mid way through the season unfair? That's the bloody essence of motorsport. Ironically it is the midfield battle that has and normally does shown the biggest micro gains as they're called. No question though this season has seen an unbelievable development war between Ferrari and Mercedes, and to a lesser extent RBR, that has actually accerlerated the gap. Lets be clear everyone has copied McLarens rear wing end plates and FI's floor louvers.

The issue here isn't one of development for me, it's of the ridiculous amounts of appeals teams can put through on developments and how they can work the "system" to derail other teams development. It's insane. Haas have had to take things off of their cars, which Renault have grumbled about, and vice versa, some of which I think are fair, others of which I don't. I think it should be issue an of teams should make a request to the FIA, the FIA should issue a response, teams should then be given a week or two to seek clarification, and then the FIA should make a final decision and that should be final. Also during this clarification process, if the FIA have deemed the part initially legal then race stewards should be not allowed to rule on those issue until a final decision. It is legal until proven otherwise. That's should cut most of this out. But you can't stop it sadly.

As to the wheel hubs, they're legal. I initially commented elsewhere I didn't get how they were different to what was on the RB8... then an engineer at a team explained to me why it was vastly different and most probably legal. It's legal, these holes are about heat dissipation or spreading throughout the wheel rim and maybe even into the tyre... hence maybe Mercedes driving so slowly on their out laps prior to qualifying, they can essentially turn on and off their tyres far easier now, and thus take out far less life from their tyres and still get them to the right temps. It's shockingly simple, and insanely clever, but isn't so useful to a team thats car is designed to fire the tyres up and maintain temps such as Ferrari's philosophy. I absolutely expect Renault to develop a similar solution, maybe TR and RBR also.

[LotusLover]

The trouble with set homologation LL is if you turn up to Australia with a vastly superior, or inferior car then that sets the rest of the season without development, so why have the rest of the season? How is finding a way to make your car work mid way through the season unfair? That's the bloody essence of motorsport. Ironically it is the midfield battle that has and normally does shown the biggest micro gains as they're called. No question though this season has seen an unbelievable development war between Ferrari and Mercedes, and to a lesser extent RBR, that has actually accerlerated the gap. Lets be clear everyone has copied McLarens rear wing end plates and FI's floor louvers.

I agree and i wasn't saying it SHOULD be that way? Just chewing the fat about considerations or other ways to curb spending and try and shorten the gulf between the smaller less funded teams.  look i was digressing and maybe this could go into a thread somewhere, discussing development as opposed to the whole Mercedes controversial wheel rims upgrade.

[Jody Barton]

LL for me they're separate issues that have been highlighted by their interdependence. Without the wheels we wouldn't see the ridiculous state of the sports rules book and appeals / clarifications process, but without those rules the wheels wouldn't have been scrutinized so tightly and we wouldn't have learned so much, indirectly, about the Mercedes. I'm happy to talk the regulatory framework and FIA ruling situation. Not sure whether it should be in this thread or elsewhere, but I'm happy to talk about it. I'm fairly sanguine about it to be honest. As to the wheels, it's now passed FIA scrutineering and inspection before being put on the car. They passed a second interrogation, and further clarification. They're legal, in terms of how they're being used now.

[PapaofGags]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/46225204 (Part 1)

Fernando Alonso: Lewis Hamilton, Ron Dennis & where it started to go wrong at McLaren in 2007.

Fernando Alonso retires from Formula 1 this weekend at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix as one of the sport's biggest stars but arguably its greatest enigma.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/46226823 (Part 2)

The second part of our series on the key moments of Fernando Alonso's career reveals new secrets about the tempestuous events that ended his first spell at McLaren.

The 2007 Hungarian Grand Prix has gone down in Formula 1 folklore.



I really enjoyed reading these articles, thought others might as well, no one comes out of it covered in glory but F1 is so much more fun with two men with equal desire/talent to win in the same car.

[NeilP]

Very interesting. I am sure this type of rivalry between drivers still exists today, we know it does the Rosberg/Hamilton connection at Mercedes is proof. To me its nothing, its what I would expect of people at the top of their profession trying to get an edge in any way they can.

What is shocking is that people who run the sport knew about the issues between McLaren and Ferrari yet chose at least for some time to do nothing about it. Plus it makes me question the integrity of the first 'enquiry' . Clearly that was not a very good one.

Alonso will go down as one of the greats but he will also have the "What if" attached to his name too which is very sad.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Fernando Alonso: Lewis Hamilton, Ron Dennis & where it started to go wrong at McLaren in 2007.

I really enjoyed reading these articles, thought others might as well,

Many Thanks, Paps, great balanced articles by Benson, on the whole saga, but one thing I did pick up on, was in the first piece, referencing:

fuel, tyre, car management . . .sound familiar? to what a lot of folks bitch about today?  Same as it ever was,just different rules

And Also, I Remember, Bernie on Brundles Grid walk, at the last race, predicting that Kimi, would win the WDC.  I guess, as usual, he knew shit we didn't, LOL.

Said it before, I blame neither driver.  For me it lands on Dennis's door.  I'd say maybe it was the first time he'd handled a fiery character like Alonso.  But that can't be said, after having Senna.  But hey ho, great piece by Benson