[forzaferrari]

  It is either that or I have to stop visiting the place completely.

And how would you go about reading all my annoying opinions & BS then? 

[Antilochos]

  It is either that or I have to stop visiting the place completely.

And how would you go about reading all my annoying opinions & BS then? 

I for one thought they were very educational...

[morini]

And how would you go about reading all my annoying opinions & BS then? 

Well, yes. There is that!

I for one thought they were very educational...

Remedial education, you mean?


That was a joke, but the way.

[Antilochos]

And how would you go about reading all my annoying opinions & BS then? 

Well, yes. There is that!

I for one thought they were very educational...

Remedial education, you mean?


That was a joke, but the way.

No need to explain a joke Mornini. Either I get them or I don't, but in that last case I am to much of a jerk to care about it.

[NeilP]

Beano, its no surprise to me at all. Bernie both saved and bled F1 over his time.

My father 92 and massively suffering from dementia still bemoans the changes in soccer in the UK and complains that 'the good ole days' were the best. Even before his Dementia deteriorated to the point of where conversation is almost a waste of time I tried several times to explain to him that not only soccer but indeed all professional sports are now run by money and making money. That includes F1.

I know next to nothing about F1 and technically speaking about the cars I actually do know nothing (There is a positive/negative for you) However what I think I understand and certainly what drew me to F1 in the first place (apart from the British involvement) was the technical excellence of the sport. To me it is by far the most technology drive, challenging and engineering based sport in the world.

Speaking purely for myself here and not being critical of anyone on this board and indeed not on it I really do not care about people complaining about how boring and predictable it is . Yes it would be nice if the pack were concertinaed more than they are but in truth that matters little to me. You will only have my word for this but I can assure you it is the truth. I love that the team I happen to follow is Mercedes and the driver I like and follow and am a fan of the most is Lewis Hamilton but make no mistake here it is not because they are above and beyond everyone else its just pure luck on my behalf. Unlike Forza who is more of team man, I am more of a driver man and almost exclusively a British driver fan with a few exceptions such as Ayrton Senna, who I loved even though he drove at the same time as my true F1 hero Nigel Mansell drove.

I truly dont give a damn about equality. F1 has never been about equality. EVER. I have seen and in no order here Ferrari, Williams, McLaren, Red Bull and Mercedes dominate the sport. So what. To me that is the very essence of F1, its DNA if you like and I do not want to see it change. Not now, not ever.

I have banged on and on about how Liberty Media are "Americanizing" the sport. The American sports market is so different to the rest of the world. There has to be lots of scoring in the sport (if that is relevant to that particular sport) There has to be a winner in every game (when I first got here nobody could understand how a soccer match could finish in a draw and as for a 0-0 draw what is the point!!!). There has to be lots of rules that prevent any team from dominating.

It seems to me Liberty Media are intent on breaking F1 and remaking it in their own vision which whether I like it or not is irrelevant to them. All these rule changes to bring racing closer are going to ruin F1 not make it better. What is the point of excellence if you then are curtailed by further rule changes (Trust me this is just the beginning). F1 is not INDY car where they all (I believe use the same Dallara Chassis). What is next are we going to have a single engine, gearbox and brake systems that everyone must use. That is not F1, not in my eyes anyway.

I get sick and tired of reading fans complain about the racing being boring and at the moment dominated by a single team. I want to scream at them then go watch something else this is F1 its always been this way. It is no coincidence that many times teams have dominated is because TECHNICALLY they were ahead of the competition. You know one of the best things they can do to spice up the racing is to stop assing around with the tyres. That in truth is my biggest bitch about the racing side of things. I want to see what each team can do without a false barrier being in place.

LM are about making money, lots of money. For that I absolutely do not blame them they paid a lot for the show and want a return on their investment but make no mistake you are witnessing the slow death of the real F1. That may be what a lot of people want but dont count me in that I want it to stay the way it is with only minor changes, which I will spare you all from reading (For now anyway)

Being an older guy I get that I do not like some changes in our world but to me this is perhaps the saddest thing I see in my sporting world. I feel my days of following F1 could be nearing the end. Its the same reason I hate participation trophies. If you are good enough you will get there but you also have to be realistic about what is a win for you as an individual and as a team and in F1 now as in the past very few teams of the grid ever have a hope of winning a race yet alone a championship and I hope that never changes.

[Beano]

Beano, its no surprise to me at all. Bernie both saved and bled F1 over his time.

My father 92 and massively suffering from dementia still bemoans the changes in soccer in the UK and complains that 'the good ole days' were the best.  Even before his Dementia deteriorated to the point of where conversation is almost a waste of time I tried several times to explain to him that not only soccer but indeed all professional sports are now run by money and making money. That includes F1.

I know next to nothing about F1 and technically speaking about the cars I actually do know nothing (There is a positive/negative for you) However what I think I understand and certainly what drew me to F1 in the first place (apart from the British involvement) was the technical excellence of the sport. To me it is by far the most technology drive, challenging and engineering based sport in the world.

Speaking purely for myself here and not being critical of anyone on this board and indeed not on it I really do not care about people complaining about how boring and predictable it is . Yes it would be nice if the pack were concertinaed more than they are but in truth that matters little to me.  You will only have my word for this but I can assure you it is the truth. I love that the team I happen to follow is Mercedes and the driver I like and follow and am a fan of the most is Lewis Hamilton but make no mistake here it is not because they are above and beyond everyone else its just pure luck on my behalf.  Unlike Forza who is more of team man, I am more of a driver man and almost exclusively a British driver fan with a few exceptions such as Ayrton Senna, who I loved even though he drove at the same time as my true F1 hero Nigel Mansell drove.

I truly dont give a damn about equality. F1 has never been about equality. EVER. I have seen and in no order here Ferrari, Williams, McLaren, Red Bull and Mercedes dominate the sport. So what. To me that is the very essence of F1, its DNA if you like and I do not want to see it change. Not now, not ever.

I have banged on and on about how Liberty Media are "Americanizing" the sport. The American sports market is so different to the rest of the world. There has to be lots of scoring in the sport (if that is relevant to that particular sport)  There has to be a winner in every game (when I first got here nobody could understand how a soccer match could finish in a draw and as for a 0-0 draw what is the point!!!). There has to be lots of rules that prevent any team from dominating.

It seems to me Liberty Media are intent on breaking F1 and remaking it in their own vision which whether I like it or not is irrelevant to them.  All these rule changes to bring racing closer are going to ruin F1 not make it better.  What is the point of excellence if you then are curtailed by further rule changes (Trust me this is just the beginning).  F1 is not INDY car where they all (I believe use the same Dallara Chassis).  What is next are we going to have a single engine, gearbox and brake systems that everyone must use. That is not F1, not in my eyes anyway.

I get sick and tired of reading fans complain about the racing being boring and at the moment dominated by a single team. I want to scream at them then go watch something else this is F1 its always been this way. It is no coincidence that many times teams have dominated is because TECHNICALLY they were ahead of the competition.  You know one of the best things they can do to spice up the racing is to stop assing around with the tyres. That in truth is my biggest bitch about the racing side of things. I want to see what each team can do without a false barrier being in place.

LM are about making money, lots of money.  For that I absolutely do not blame them they paid a lot for the show and want a return on their investment but make no mistake you are witnessing the slow death of the real F1.  That may be what a lot of people want but dont count me in that I want it to stay the way it is with only minor changes, which I will spare you all from reading (For now anyway)

Being an older guy I get that I do not like some changes in our world but to me this is perhaps the saddest thing I see in my sporting world. I feel my days of following F1 could be nearing the end. Its the same reason I hate participation trophies. If you are good enough you will get there but you also have to be realistic about what is a win for you as an individual and as a team and in F1 now as in the past very few teams of the grid ever have a hope of winning a race yet alone a championship and I hope that never changes.

Morning Neil

I’ll have to be quick here bud, firstly I’m not sure that Bernie “saved” F1 it was going along although it definitely wasn’t making the money it did when he took over. So “saving” is not the best choice of words I think. Let’s be brutally honest he bought F1 to MAKE money that is all and that he did but by crippling the sport and that was the whole point was “F1 was better blah blah” but at WHAT COST? That’s not a question to you by the way. 

I’m not sure how you would come to the conclusion they are making lots of money because current situation has stopped that dead in it’s tracks. F1 needs more viewers that’s a fact numbers dwindled for all types of reasons. Yes I respect you’re opinion on the excellence and root of the sport. However because the hardcore see it that way could be deemed a way of “well I won’t watch that because it isn’t how I want it to be” yeah fine it’s everyone’s right to do what they want. I guess the point is does that outlook attract more bums on seats or viewers to subscribe and so forth? I can’t say whether it does or does not as none of us here can. I found what you said a little “I’ll cut my nose off to spite my face” approach which as AJ said is your prerogative and I’m sure many would agree as many would not. 

LM have a big job to do as does Ross Brawn. I have now read a lot of posts and comments elsewhere and cede the opinion looks against “reverse grids” fair enough but It’s not me LM have to convince so happy with that, case closed on that one!

I’ll ask you this Neil and anyone else in terms of LMs and the circuits position?

Would you be happy to watch the current show but in Asia and America and lose some European circuits in exchange because I have a feeling that’s the direction we are heading imo. Costs are too high on both teams and running costs at where they race. Can’t blame LM for that I’m afraid. I’m not team LM I’m just pointing out the fact that they inherited this situation, hence my original post. Neil the bit about all the costs and such I’m guessing you were answering Anti’s stance not mine because I didn’t actually bring that up. I am in agreement with him though.

Good talking Neil loved your post (essay) 

[morini]

Being an older guy I get that I do not like some changes in our world but to me this is perhaps the saddest thing I see in my sporting world. I feel my days of following F1 could be nearing the end. Its the same reason I hate participation trophies. If you are good enough you will get there but you also have to be realistic about what is a win for you as an individual and as a team and in F1 now as in the past very few teams of the grid ever have a hope of winning a race yet alone a championship and I hope that never changes.

I agree with every word of your (bloody long!) post Neil  Particularly the sentiment in bold above.

LM must already realise that there are more ways to monetise a sport other than just increasing viewing figures. Yes, they are important but not the be all and end all and paywalls are the main reason viewing figures are dropping anyway. Removing the paywalls would generate a lot more interest from the younger demographic. Inevitably there will be more commercial influences in the content, but we would all have to live with that.

Change the sport fundamentally and at least two long time viewers are alienated (I suspect quite a considerable number would simply stop watching). I have watched F1 all my life and would hate to have to give it up. But I will if the sport changes in the wrong ways.

[NeilP]

Beano, as regards 'Saved' you have a point and of course he brought it to make money it is indeed a rarity for anyone to buy a business and not wish to make money. However I look upon it as similar to Kerry Packer changing the way cricketers were paid it had the same effect it raised a lot more money for the teams and hence drivers.

If you re read my post I never said LM are making lots of money I asserted as a business investment that was their goal as indeed it is for nearly all business acquisitions.

I understand your "cut off my nose" comment but you are quite wrong. I will not watch because to me with all the changes I foresee it will no longer be F1 which is why I watch to start with. If wanted a participation sport to watch I would look elsewhere but I do not require that "feel good for everyone" factor in my F1 viewing.

Obviously you have a very different opinion which I totally respect but vehemently disagree with. Let me turn this back on you if you dislike the sport so much and want so many changes so it fits your likes more why do you watch? Why should it change because of people like you who (I assume) want so many changes? How does that make you and others like you any different from people like me who do not want to see major changes.

You know there is another possibility here that someone with money may like to consider. Maybe, just maybe there is a market for an 'everyone is equal' open wheel racing series to tour the world as F1 does.

What I feel people do not understand about F1 enough is its technical excellence. Do you really think the future of F1 will be that great if there is no advantage to improving the technology of the cars. At that stage companies will cease to push the boundaries because there will be no advantage to be gained and knowing if they do another rule change will follow to minimize or erase that advantage. Furthermore at that stage the likes of Mercedes and Ferrari will remove themselves from F1 completely then where will it be, and dont give me the stock reply of 'oh well'. It would be an unmitigated disaster. You just imagine how many lawsuits LM will be issuing then!!! Personally if LM do make many changes I hope Ferrari and Mercedes and maybe even Renault and Honda will form a new series of racing then I will be back to watch.

Do NOT take this personally I completely understand there are many, many people out there who fall totally in line with your views and that is just the way it is. I fear for a sport I have loved admittedly from a point of much ignorance compared to my knowledge of other sports for many years, there are large parts of me that still wish Bernie was in control.

Finally to answer your point about venues. Yes, I would rather see racing in other countries than to lose the DNA of the sport I admire so much. As Morini has said before me there are many ways to go to make money and as you say quite rightly, none of us here on this board are qualified to say which is the best way to go from a financial standpoint. The money making and business aspect of the sport is a whole other issue which is very complex but I do feel people such as yourself are totally not getting how many people the sport will lose if its DNA as I call it is drastically altered.

[Beano]

Beano, as regards 'Saved' you have a point and of course he brought it to make money it is indeed a rarity for anyone to buy a business and not wish to make money. However I look upon it as similar to Kerry Packer changing the way cricketers were paid it had the same effect it raised a lot more money for the teams and hence drivers.

If you re read my post I never said LM are making lots of money I asserted as a business investment that was their goal as indeed it is for nearly all business acquisitions.

I understand your "cut off my nose" comment but you are quite wrong. I will not watch because to me with all the changes I foresee it will no longer be F1 which is why I watch to start with. If wanted a participation sport to watch I would look elsewhere but I do not require that "feel good for everyone" factor in my F1 viewing.

Obviously you have a very different opinion which I totally respect but vehemently disagree with. Let me turn this back on you if you dislike the sport so much and want so many changes so it fits your likes more why do you watch?  Why should it change because of people like you who (I assume) want so many changes?  How does that make you and others like you any different from people like me who do not want to see major changes.

You know there is another possibility here that someone with money may like to consider. Maybe, just maybe there is a market for an 'everyone is equal' open wheel racing series to tour the world as F1 does.

What I feel people do not understand about F1 enough is its technical excellence.  Do you really think the future of F1 will be that great if there is no advantage to improving the technology of the cars.  At that stage companies will cease to push the boundaries because there will be no advantage to be gained and knowing if they do another rule change will follow to minimize or erase that advantage.  Furthermore at that stage the likes of Mercedes and Ferrari will remove themselves from F1 completely then where will it be, and dont give me the stock reply of 'oh well'. It would be an unmitigated disaster.  You just imagine how many lawsuits LM will be issuing then!!!  Personally if LM do make many changes I hope Ferrari and Mercedes and maybe even Renault and Honda will form a new series of racing then I will be back to watch.

Do NOT take this personally I completely understand there are many, many people out there who fall totally in line with your views and that is just the way it is. I fear for a sport I have loved admittedly from a point of much ignorance compared to my knowledge of other sports for many years, there are large parts of me that still wish Bernie was in control.

Finally to answer your point about venues. Yes, I would rather see racing in other countries than to lose the DNA of the sport I admire so much. As Morini has said before me there are many ways to go to make money and as you say quite rightly, none of us here on this board are qualified to say which is the best way to go from a financial standpoint. The money making and business aspect of the sport is a whole other issue which is very complex but I do feel people such as yourself are totally not getting how many people the sport will lose if its DNA as I call it is drastically altered.

Neil

Just seen this and LOVE IT. so much I highlighted in red to cover as best I can   Using my laptop so hopefully better.

1. My bad, I read that as they are in the current climate making lots of money!My point was in this climate that is exactly not what they are doing! and guess they need to make back revenue and will need to think hard on that one?? Maybe go back to sponsors like tobacco I mean its ok to say drive don't drink (hypocritical considering what alcohol does to many lives!! driving or not). Thats just a thought but doubt that would even be considered in this day and age.

2. Yes you are right but that is a double edged sword also. If ratings continued to dwindle do you think they'd say "lets keep on plugging on" that's no business model that EVER worked or at least to my knowledge, but as we both agreed that business is best left to those better qualified. I do understand though yes if I can say what I say then I have to apply that to myself and others on similar thinking also.

3. We've discussed this before in years gone by (my memory is still ok in that respect  ) I remember A1 GP never worked but I would hazard lack of good names more than anything. That aside Neil I have never implied all team have to be spec I will say money need to be distributed evenly and costs need to be capped in the HOPE this can draw more teams and lets see rather than throwing hundreds of millions a bit more "here's your budget" now use your engineers and whomever else to build you the best car you can, at least that then gives ALL teams an equal footing and we may see the best teams innovate with the same money. My main issue is its become like Football, those who throw the most money at it generally win and that's not SPORT in its purest form. We can argue all day long (judging by you're massive posts   ) on where the line is drawn on technical excellence and sport me thinks.

4. Are you in agreement that the show can move to wherever it needs to go to generate the revenue to continue? I am most certainly not of that disposition, I want to see Monza Spa Silverstone (Monaco can go) but happy to see new venues of course but a balance. Not saying that will happen but if the costs keep going up then bye bye Silverstone (home of F!) that doesn't bear thinking about for me at least. 


In regards to Bernie hmmm I prefer to look at the bigger picture on that issue. Hence the old article , (two sides to every story and  Bernie had some merit of course) Not his qualifying idea though eh last year or whenever it was!! He was getting on though in his defence.


Neil I wouldn't take your posts personally never have, never had need to either. I'll leave that to Forza 


At the end when all is said and done we can agree to disagree on many points I never have a problem with that.

[forzaferrari]

Neil I wouldn't take your posts personally never have, never had need to either. I'll leave that to Forza 

Oi.......I can cause a sh*t storm & get into trouble all on my own thank you very much