Renault R.S.18
#21

Purple-banana because the monkey seat is more effective, and until this season they were obviously the far better option. Also by potentially heating up the underside of the wing you could disrupt airflow around the diffuser. I'm not convinced it's a good idea, and it gets in the way of the aero solutions attempted by the likes of Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari, which will probably have a better effect, and not disturb current airflows and vortices. I expect Renault will eventually drop it.
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#22

I always thought that Renault were kings of engine maps with RedBull ofc. If they have got their engine to a level where they can start being more innovative again, could this become useful during off throttle events? If they have found away to expel gases/air at great enough speed, without burning excess fuel ofc. It is highly energising, as long as they can ensure laminar flow at its localised area, the centre of the underside of the rear wing. Then its working with the diffuser, as gasses aren't passing through its flow, but with its flow. As well as negating crash structure impact on upwards airflow?
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#23

Off throttle engine maps for the expelling of gases for aerodynamic benefit are banned. It wasn't just blown diffusers that were banned.

So sorry Hesh, what you are talking about isn't possible. I think what they are trying to do is create a stalling effect by actually heating the rearwing down straights, which will disrupt the flow of air coming out of the diffuser as it'll have a low pressure area directly above it which will create lift.
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#24

Ah of course it was, for some reason in my head I though it was just burning excess fuel during off throttle that was banned. Along with moving the exhaust outlet reg back to stop it being used for aero.

This could be a new avenue for teams, I'm sure there'll be some exploration. Wonder if by the end of next week, if Renault still have it configured like this they will be pursuing it for Melbourne.
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#25

(01-03-2018, 10:14 AM)Jody Barton Wrote:  Purple-banana because the monkey seat is more effective, and until this season they were obviously the far better option. Also by potentially heating up the underside of the wing you could disrupt airflow around the diffuser. I'm not convinced it's a good idea, and it gets in the way of the aero solutions attempted by the likes of Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari, which will probably have a better effect, and not disturb current airflows and vortices. I expect Renault will eventually drop it.

True, however if the wing is subject to the coanda effect rather than the exhaust plume directly (as I'd gauge from the picture to be the case, heating will be minimal at anything more than a few mph - it will still be ambient air in contact with the wing, just energised by the exhaust flow or coerced into a more beneficial pattern.

Extra or accelerated flow under the main plane of the rear wing would surely improve the diffuser performance by further reducing the static pressure behind the car.

It's an interesting idea anyway, always good to see some innovation and it gets the teams and fans alike discussing it's pros & cons.


Purple Banana (a.k.a John or JB  Smile )
"The flowers of victory belong in many vases." - Michael Schumacher
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#26

Well with the coander effect Purple-banana an area of low pressure is ALWAYS created. In this instance it would be directly below the exhaust, which would cause air from the diffuser to flow up. If you look at diffusers that is the express opposite of what the turning veins are trying to do. Why? Because it will create 'lift' at the rest of the car. If Renault can negate that lift at high speed then they'll be A OK. But if not it'll be an absolute handfull down the straights, into breaking zones, and possibly undrivable in high speed corners... Which might go some way to explaining why the car was so poor through turn 3 on Tuesday.
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#27

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree there Jody.

The coanda effect would/will be effecting the pressure below and behind the rear wing main plane - not the exhaust. I don’t see where any element of lift would come in to it (other than what would effect every other car’s exhaust pipe), a horizontal flow exhaust is being directed upwards = downforce.

The fact that Renault are even trialling it shows some very clever guys & girls at Enstone think there is potential there - and that’s enough to convince me


Purple Banana (a.k.a John or JB  Smile )
"The flowers of victory belong in many vases." - Michael Schumacher
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#28

Purple-banana we can agree to disagree, no problem. I only have access to Hanley Innovations CFD software at uni, and I'm no aerodynamacist, but hot stream of air aimed upwards always creates area of low pressure just below where the exit of the hot stream of air is. Confirmed it with a few researchers here in Malmö. Obviously we don't know the effect because we don't know temps / flow rates. But given the metal skin on the underside of the rearwing, Renault think the heat is pretty intense themselves.

PS for the air to attach to the underside of the wing and create a coandâ (coander) effect the low pressure area would have to be below the stream of hot air as it exits. Obviously off throttle blowing is banned, so they're trying to do something at high speed, my guess is stall the wing somehow.
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#29

Great read guys Smile

Some good news Fog, BBC F1  http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/43246098

Some good news for Renault
Abiteboul has made it clear that the Renault works team is the French company's priority, and they appear to have made strong progress over the winter.
The yellow-and-black cars were towards the sharp end of the timing sheets for much of testing. They ran reliably and the team got through a lot of work.
The impression up and down the pit lane is that Renault, at least at the first test, are clearly the fourth fastest team, and in a bit of a no-man's land behind the big three and ahead of everyone else.
With plenty of developments to come on their car, Renault are looking good to make the progress their five-year plan to be title contenders by 2020 dictates.

Going in the right direction it seems.   Cool

"When a man holds you round the throat, I don't think he has come to apologise" 
Ayrton Senna on Nigel Mansell, SPA 1987.   Angel
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#30

Renault clearly 4th fastest? I'm not so sure. But you can certainly argue the case easily. I do think FI have slipped back a bit, and Renault have come on leaps and bounds. However, I think from winter testing so far I'd probably say FI have been hiding their light under a bushel, and McLaren when on track have looked really, really good. However, yeah, the big 3 way out in front still, with probably Merc leading the way with hopefully Ferrari and RBR snapping at their heels.
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