Honda not all that bad - Marko
#1

I know the link is in German, but for those who can use Google translate / read a bit of German:

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form...55687.html


The rough gist is that the Honda engine isn't that bad, and Marko believes it's comparable to the Renault engine already. He also states that the Honda team were heavily restricted by the McLaren chassis design / philosophy, and that with those restrictions lifted by Toro Rosso Honda have already found significant gains. He also states Honda are still pumping in vast sums of money into R&D, and that he's essentially been surprised by the PU performance given the flak they received from McLaren. Which leads onto his final point, a dig at Alonso, who he thinks is responsible for the falling out between Honda and McLaren, and also partly responsible for making Honda look bad.

So what do we think? Is Marko right? Is he just stirring because McLaren now have the same PU as Red Bull? Thoughts welcome.
Reply
#2

It's probably not far from the truth, there were times towards the end of the 2017 where we were surprised by the comparable speed between the Renault powered cars and McLaren. For them to be going into a season where they have a better direction on their design, surely we expect greater gain from Honda than from Renault. Power output wise anyway, reliability is still going to be a real test for both manufactures.

I did read that Honda will be taking their 2017 engine to testing in case of 2018 failures. Does this fill those involved with reassurance or fear? Is it a case of just lesson learned, mileage matters at testing and Honda are going to ensure that TR can get their car on track to test it.

What would be interesting to find out is, what were the restrictions laid down by McLaren? One could guess it was size and weight of the PU, especially batteries and cooling. As the airbox inlet on the 2017 McLaren was almost no existent to that of Renault teams in particular. McLaren sure do like their tight rears(keep it clean) so with that lifted I imagine Honda are finding breathing room to flex its might more. But didn't TR not have enough room and cooling, which wasn't enough specified by Renault which consequently lead to their numerous engine failures. So are TR making alot of comprises to allow Honda to develop quicker so they are in the best position to be used by RedBull come 2019(?)

With Marco'c comments RedBull are in full backing/support of Honda. Surely every engine manufacturer is pounding scrilla in R&D, otherwise they wouldn't be able to compete at all.

One could see correlation between the F1 and MotoGP engine issues. 2016 and the first half of 2017 the Honda engine was insane, a seriously powerful untamed beast, the riders really struggled with it. By the end of 2017 they had somewhat tamed it. Although not the most powerful on the grid, they were pushing the innovation.

As a full supporter of wanting McLaren back amongst the front, but also variety, I'm torn.
Reply
#3

I hope Marko is right, I'd love to see Honda competitive. Something tells me it's kidology / gamesmanship though. Don't particularly like the guy and wouldn't trust a word that came out of his mouth unless it was corroborated by another source.
[+] 1 user Likes morini's post
Reply
#4

Hesh, there were times where the traces showed the McLaren actually had the fastest acceleration out of corners, and other times they were right behind Mercedes in that category. Yet they would stall halfway down the straights. It'll be intriguing to watch, Marko was being very pessimistic about Honda and TR when it was announced. Totally feet on the ground approach... Now? To hear him talking like this is, well, quite unlike him. Perhaps he's under obligations to talk Honda up, but given his past performance he tends to call things pretty straight. Will McLaren live to regret losing Honda? Who knows, but I'm keeping my eyes peeled for TR in winter testing.
[+] 1 user Likes Jody Barton's post
Reply
#5

Yep, Honda energy store and deployment was one of their biggest weak points. In contrast, apparently, the energy store for Renault is best on the grid. Which I'm wondering whether was one of the restriction that McLaren were imposing?

The traces you mention Jody was indeed interesting. I guess that comes from drive-ability, and a power unit that is weak will be easier to configure for traction.
Reply
#6

(01-02-2018, 03:48 PM)Monster Hesh Wrote:  I guess that comes from drive-ability, and a power unit that is weak will be easier to configure for traction.

I made exactly this point some time ago when someone brought up the McLaren impressive speed out of corners on the sky comments (before I was banned, obviously).
[+] 1 user Likes morini's post
Reply
#7

I heard in terms of energy store and deployment that Ferrari was the best on the grid, I know the Renault battery packs are big and bulky, because both TR and RBR complained about it publicly Wink

The traces showed the Honda engine hitting a wall, almost like hitting a rev limiter, up until that point it stripped the Renault engine and wasn't too far off Ferrari and Merc. I think the extreme rake on the McLaren didn't help as it created too much drag.
Reply
#8

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/honda...s-1038387/

"The "pressure" and "responsibility" of supplying Red Bull with a Formula 1 engine are key to Honda's discussions with the team for next season.
Honda motorsport boss Masashi Yamamoto met with Red Bull motorsport advisor Helmut Marko in Spain last weekend as Red Bull evaluates whether to end its long-running relationship with current engine supplier Renault to become Honda's works team.
Renault has outlined its concerns about Red Bull's desire to wait until June, at the earliest, to make a decision, with the FIA's formal but flexible deadline this week.
Yamamoto told Motorsport.com that Honda is happy to take its time to consider expanding to supply two teams for the first time since returning to F1 in 2015.
"We regard it as a positive thing, giving us time means we have time to consult more," he said. "We are very positive. To deal with Red Bull is a really big thing for Honda, because they are a top team.
"This gives us a sort of pressure as an engine manufacturer. We have to consider many aspects very well, can we really deal with Red Bull's size?
"We have to feel the responsibility to supply the engine."
Yamamoto acknowledged that as well as being a natural next step for Honda's engine programme, a second team also gives it a "better opportunity" to promote one of its junior drivers to F1.
Honda wants one of Tadasuke Makino and Nirei Fukuzumi to graduate from Formula 2 if they earn enough superlicence points.
Toro Rosso is the best option, particularly with Red Bull facing a possible driver dilemma.
Daniel Ricciardo's future is unclear and the out-on-loan Carlos Sainz may commit to Renault long-term, which means Pierre Gasly could be promoted to the senior team, while his teammate Brendon Hartley is under pressure early in his rookie F1 campaign.
Yamamoto also said Honda must be sure it will not be overstretched by a Red Bull deal, "especially" at its Sakura research and development facility.
Honda has been preparing for an expansion by increasing its staff and considering how to structure its grand prix staff, which Yamamoto said is helped by Red Bull and Toro Rosso being sister teams.
He described it as making the organisation more "compact" on a management level, although technical input would remain separate.
Technical director Toyoharu Tanabe would likely become head of the overall trackside operation, with individual project leaders for each team reporting to him.
Partnering with Red Bull, which is still winning races with Renault, would end Honda's brief spell out of the spotlight since its tough McLaren union ended.
"It was difficult with McLaren, but it was also a very good experience," he said. "They gave us very precious experience as a partner.
"We are now having another experience with Toro Rosso, which is very good. If we are going to be with Red Bull, we don't think we'll be together like McLaren. I don't think we'll have the same situation as we had like McLaren."

"When a man holds you round the throat, I don't think he has come to apologise" 
Ayrton Senna on Nigel Mansell, SPA 1987.   Angel
[+] 3 users Like PapaofGags's post
Reply
#9

Honda are being pretty bullish aren't they, which is unlike Japanese people, unless they know they can deliver. I know Ron Dennis over promising put a lot of pressure on Honda internally not to embarrass him, and they feel that was part of the issue. Marko seems to think Honda are bringing a big update to Canada, yet, Horner apparently prefers the devil he knows in Renault.
Reply
#10

(17-05-2018, 09:35 AM)PapaofGags Wrote:  https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/honda...s-1038387/

"The "pressure" and "responsibility" of supplying Red Bull with a Formula 1 engine are key to Honda's discussions with the team for next season.
Honda motorsport boss Masashi Yamamoto met with Red Bull motorsport advisor Helmut Marko in Spain last weekend as Red Bull evaluates whether to end its long-running relationship with current engine supplier Renault to become Honda's works team.
Renault has outlined its concerns about Red Bull's desire to wait until June, at the earliest, to make a decision, with the FIA's formal but flexible deadline this week.
Yamamoto told Motorsport.com that Honda is happy to take its time to consider expanding to supply two teams for the first time since returning to F1 in 2015.
"We regard it as a positive thing, giving us time means we have time to consult more," he said. "We are very positive. To deal with Red Bull is a really big thing for Honda, because they are a top team.
"This gives us a sort of pressure as an engine manufacturer. We have to consider many aspects very well, can we really deal with Red Bull's size?
"We have to feel the responsibility to supply the engine."
Yamamoto acknowledged that as well as being a natural next step for Honda's engine programme, a second team also gives it a "better opportunity" to promote one of its junior drivers to F1.
Honda wants one of Tadasuke Makino and Nirei Fukuzumi to graduate from Formula 2 if they earn enough superlicence points.
Toro Rosso is the best option, particularly with Red Bull facing a possible driver dilemma.
Daniel Ricciardo's future is unclear and the out-on-loan Carlos Sainz may commit to Renault long-term, which means Pierre Gasly could be promoted to the senior team, while his teammate Brendon Hartley is under pressure early in his rookie F1 campaign.
Yamamoto also said Honda must be sure it will not be overstretched by a Red Bull deal, "especially" at its Sakura research and development facility.
Honda has been preparing for an expansion by increasing its staff and considering how to structure its grand prix staff, which Yamamoto said is helped by Red Bull and Toro Rosso being sister teams.
He described it as making the organisation more "compact" on a management level, although technical input would remain separate.
Technical director Toyoharu Tanabe would likely become head of the overall trackside operation, with individual project leaders for each team reporting to him.
Partnering with Red Bull, which is still winning races with Renault, would end Honda's brief spell out of the spotlight since its tough McLaren union ended.
"It was difficult with McLaren, but it was also a very good experience," he said. "They gave us very precious experience as a partner.
"We are now having another experience with Toro Rosso, which is very good. If we are going to be with Red Bull, we don't think we'll be together like McLaren. I don't think we'll have the same situation as we had like McLaren."

Pah RB can go whistle, they whine like hell when its not going there way, no class at all Smile Just saying lol
[+] 2 users Like LotusLover's post
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)