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Aerodynamics - Antilochos - 14-05-2018

Always I hear about how much difference the aerodynamic design choices make. The cars get all those alien-curvy looking "frills and furbelows". The most fancy piece might be the front wing.
Well, in Spain Verstappen lost a fairly big piece of his fancy front wing. You should say that will have a huge impact on his drive abillity of the car, or at lost on the laptimes he can do. Fact is, it did not. The driver did not even went inside the pitbox, but did some adjustments via his steering wheel and managed to do just fine (kept a four time world champion with fresher wheels and faster car behind him for quite some rounds).

The question that comes up in my head, being not that technical myself; how important is that aerodynamic design really? Sure, it will make a difference, but how much? Is all those small ribly things neccessery? Example; did Ferrari really needed to change its mirrow?

RE: Aerodynamics - Jody Barton - 14-05-2018

Firstly he lost his front wing end plate, the turning veins and lourvres were intact at the end of the race. An engineer friend said he might have lost about 0.1 second a lap from loss of the end plate, but that the real issue is that it might have caused undue lateral wear on his front left tyre... which it did. Verstappen's front left had minor blistering at the end of the race.

If you want to look at how big a difference aero makes take a look at Ferrari compared to Sauber, or even Haas. They all run the same engine, gearboxes and suspension dampning system. The only difference therefore is chassis and aero... and they're 1.5 seconds to 2.5 seconds a lap slower at least track depending on ultimate pace. No it's not engine mode either, because the FIA are making sure all engine modes are now open to customer teams too.

RE: Aerodynamics - Antilochos - 14-05-2018

(14-05-2018, 08:16 PM)Jody Barton Wrote:  Firstly he lost his front wing end plate, the turning veins and lourvres were intact at the end of the race. An engineer friend said he might have lost about 0.1 second a lap from loss of the end plate, but that the real issue is that it might have caused undue lateral wear on his front left tyre... which it did. Verstappen's front left had minor blistering at the end of the race.

If you want to look at how big a difference aero makes take a look at Ferrari compared to Sauber, or even Haas. They all run the same engine, gearboxes and suspension dampning system. The only difference therefore is chassis and aero... and they're 1.5 seconds to 2.5 seconds a lap slower at least track depending on ultimate pace. No it's not engine mode either, because the FIA are making sure all engine modes are now open to customer teams too.

If a complete out of balanced front wing, with a end plate missing, only does a 0.1 second a lap difference, I get a feeling that a intact Sauber front wing should lose less than 0.1 second. 
I understand it is the total package that makes the difference, but still a broken Red Bull manage to go that much faster than all the other cars (beside Ferrari and Mercedes). Why do the small teams don't copy the package (or parts of it) from the big teams?

RE: Aerodynamics - Jody Barton - 14-05-2018

No, Antilochos the front wing end plate isn't there for aero efficiency gain. The turning veins are there to direct the airflow around the wheel are for that, and they were fully intact. The endplate is a teeny tiny part of that. For reference, last year Perez ran wide and got a load of rubber pick up / marbles in his front wing in Monza, he started losing over a second a lap compared to his team mate. When he came in and they cleaned the rubber from his front wing he was back up to speed. My point is the front wing end plate isn't a major component of the aero package, and ironically without it the dirty air coming off of his car was probably worse for Seb.

RE: Aerodynamics - Antilochos - 14-05-2018

(14-05-2018, 08:43 PM)Jody Barton Wrote:  No, Antilochos the front wing end plate isn't there for aero efficiency gain. The turning veins are there to direct the airflow around the wheel are for that, and they were fully intact. The endplate is a teeny tiny part of that. For reference, last year Perez ran wide and got a load of rubber pick up / marbles in his front wing in Monza, he started losing over a second a lap compared to his team mate. When he came in and they cleaned the rubber from his front wing he was back up to speed. My point is the front wing end plate isn't a major component of the aero package, and ironically without it the dirty air coming off of his car was probably worse for Seb.

This clears it up a bit for me.

RE: Aerodynamics - forzaferrari - 20-10-2018

Formula 1 teams have been told that they will not be given special dispensation to run 2019’s new front wings during the post-season Abu Dhabi test.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/new-wings-forbidden-abu-dhabi-test/3198514/

RE: Aerodynamics - Monster Hesh - 20-10-2018

I think the teams in Formula 1.5 should be allowed to test the new aero. While the bigger budgeted, top 3 teams, have to solely adhere to the tyre test.

RE: Aerodynamics - Foghorn Leghorn - 02-12-2018

2019, changes explained by Piola, dunno if yous guys seen it yet, maybe I'm late on this one, good vid though, shy of 3 mins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCJTf6E4BbY

RE: Aerodynamics - Jody Barton - 03-12-2018

Fog yeah it's a good video, still have my doubts that it'll do much to "improve" the show. I want to trust Brawn, I really, really do, just not convinced it'll do much. The 2019 cars will still produce ridiculous amounts of downforce, and thus wake. They'll still generate most of that downforce from aero, and disrupted air will still mean that aero won't work as well. Maybe it'll work a little better relative to the car in front than before, but ultimately it'll still be a loss of downforce right at the moment when you need more, or at least consistent downforce. Not sure the show will improve without active suspension and ground effect, maybe some of this will convince them that these changes need to be made for 2021.

RE: Aerodynamics - forzaferrari - 27-03-2019

Thought this was worth a read

Wheelbases and angles of attack of the cars are among the most secret data of the cars. The teams spy on each other and use photos to calculate the most important dimensions. A team has provided auto motor und sport with the data.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/daten-abmessungen-radstand-anstellwinkel-f1-autos-2019/